Do Religious Beliefs Belong at Lodge Events?
by Jeanine R.
Last Wednesday night a company called Steve's Mobile Screen was hosting a sales event at our Arbour Lodge. The beginning of the sales pitch started a little slow, with Steve giving us a snapshot of his marital background (how and when he met his lovely wife - wedding pictures and all), he then introduced her, his three small children, his brother, his wife, complete with their courtship, wedding information.
All of this was fine, ran a little long, but fine. What happened next really through me for a loop, He said "Please let us bow our heads and Pray". WHAT DID HE SAY? PRAY?, ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
I look around the room and frankly all but myself and two others had heads down in prayer. Really? C'mon people.
Two other residents and myself expressed our shock to Steve, we each in a different way explained that we felt it was totally and completely inappropriate to direct a prayer at OUR Arbor Lodge.
Using his business sales event to further his religious beliefs is frankly, unbelievable. How self righteous. And how absurd his reply "no one has ever complained".
Well, frankly, I don't doubt it. In this day and age of religious and political zealots of all stripes, most people are afraid to express any anti-religious sentiment - the next thing you know you are now somehow being in favor of a "baby killers", or a commie, or "not supporting the troops and aiding the Taliban".
The other bizarre thing to add is, when I emailed Mina and Erin, to inform them of the social faux pax by Mr. Steve, only Mina replied with a "oh, guess he won't do that again" - not what I was expecting (stupid me). I was expecting a professional reply stating that both the Event Planner and the Association Manager would now make an effort to ensure all vendors do not engage in selling anything but their wares. Leave the religion (or politics) at home.
I expect a lively discussion. I must assure you I am not a Communist and do not support the Taliban, Al Quida or any anti American faction.
I know how and where to go to pray, and it isn't at our Arbour Lodge in Glenbrooke.
Thanks for reading
40 Responses »
Leave a Response
Jeanine,
Thank you. I agree with you. I don't know what I would have done had I been there but it may have not been too nice.
Have you ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? German theologian executed by the NAZIS in 1945.
Jay
I hadn't heard of him, but found his wikipedia entry very interesting...
Yes, I also agree with you and the wedding story would have been my first clue that this FREE dinner might not be FREE afterall.
Now, let's look at it another way. My business rents the ballroom and I serve you a FREE dinner that you signed up for and enjoyed, now you're prettty much mine to do the hard sell to. You can get up and walk out, but very few would because that's just rude and being the kind people most of us are here, they're banking on that.
Now, let's just get to the fine points on these Vendor's using our Lodge to sell their wares. There are 5+ Vendor events scheduled for this month, one that will bring in more than 30 businesses and the public. I'm assuming they will all be paying rent and that's good...more income. But, are we satisfied in most of our entertainment being from Vendors? Makes it easy for staff of course, no set up or take down, etc. Have we become nothing more than the VENDOR CAPITAL of Elk Grove? When you attend a free event, you're pretty much at their mercy as long as it's lawful. Do I like it.......NO and would have pretty much reacted as you did or maybe worse and sneaked out the back door.
Sorry...I'm on a "roll"! Some questions/comments:
1. Are vendors checked out through the BBB, State Licensing Board, etc. or do you just need a business card and your name on a truck/van?
2. Are all the vendors attending the Vendors Fair licensed? Neighborhood Watch warns us of this regarding vendors coming to our doors...does staff follow those same procedures?
3. Is that information recorded in a binder?
4. Are we inviting excessive numbers of vendors in lieu of maybe having two nights for the special events in order to accomodate more than the 80 residents our ballroom can handle?
5. We're not allowed to have Bingo games here because of the rules requiring the public being invited, but yet a Vendor or Staff can, for a fee, invite the community in. This is what I call a double-standard.
I agree with you Jeannine. I believe Steve was doing and showing us his strong commitment to Community, Family and Faith. Through that he was showing us he and his family are trustworthy to sell us his services. I, however, didn't need to have a prayer to be convinced of his honesty. I fee the Prayer was one sided and not open for all people of faith to join into.
While I'm a Christian yet I wonder what we, as a group enjoing a free dinner, would have done had he asked us to kneel and pray towards the East. Would we have been so quiet? I don't think so.
I think there are two issues here.
1. Promoting or practicing a religion in the lodge with residents was insensitive to say the least.
There are many other religions besides Christianity and our residents come from a wide background. The Facility rental contract should forbid promoting any religious or political agendas while using the room (unless of course it is a private affair – wedding, memorial service, etc.).
2. Sales events. These events are not Lifestyle activities and certainly do not fall into the mission of the bylaws of the association. The fastest way to stop them is to not attend. They really are just a sales pitch and you know what they say about no such thing as a free lunch.
Personally, I made the decision for this website not do a feature article on any individual solicitor. The exception is if they are providing an on-site service AT THAT TIME (such as Shred-it, windshield repair). I will list all events on the calendar so readers have the all the information and can make their own choices.
Having said that, I do see a difference between solicitors and public service or non-profit informational meetings. Such is the case with the Fall Prevention/Balance workshop this Wednesday.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with him praying before you ate a FREE dinner. It sounds like he is a faithful Christian and with his family (children especially) in attendance they pray before they eat. When you read his sales brochure you could see that he was a Christian family man and proud of it. He rented the room and paid for the meal and if he wanted to bless his food before eating good for him. If you didn't like the prayer you should have got up and left. I have attended many events in which there is a blessing before the meal or presentation and don't get up and walk out.
I am against the Lodge being rented to outside folks and see the problem of the cheapest room rental in Elk Grove or the entire city of Sacramento but it is just going to get worst as word gets around town.
Hi, Vickie,
How do you equate "pray" with "free"?
I personally think that religion has been trying to control public life and the conscience of humankind far too long. I also believe that no one has the right to trap me into praying their way even if they think their prayers could reach God. I also believe, just recently, in a nonreligious Christianity. You don't know what I'm talking about do you? I'm not totally sure I do either.
I don't think I want to offend anyone but I'm sure I already have.
Jay
I don't think anyone feels he or his family (or anyone else) should not pray before a meal if THEY want. It is their right.
However, to have a ‘captured’ audience of many different faiths and promote their brand of religion and evoking Jesus Christ is not being sensitive to the many different faiths our residents bring to this community.
I know at city council meetings, Rotary meetings or many gatherings when saying blessing care is taken to make sure it is “non denominational” way meaning is would cover a wide and nonsectarian interests.
The difference is being INCLUSIVE not EXCLUSIVE in the blessing. From the discussions I heard the prayer was exclusive - even for some Christian beliefs.
This incident seems to reinforce the wisdom of not talking religion, sex, or politics in the Lodge J
PS. I appreciate how we can discuss this in a respectful manner on this forum. This could be a very heated topic but the comments have been civil and thoughtful and (I feel) necessary as we develop our HOA.
A very interesting discussion. I believe it is important at all public events great attention should be given to include all participants. Perhaps a moment of silence instead of public prayer would have been better. However, I don't necessarily believe that talking religion, sex or politics should be banned in the Lodge either, there's a time and a place for everything. Of course, In Real Life, dinner parties that do discuss those topics are always the fun ones. Believe you must know your crowd.
P.S. Have had a call in for an estimate since Thursday and to date have had no reply...have we scared him off?
Lively and intelligent discussion. No hate mail ....yet.....
To Vickie, there are hundreds of devout business owners (of religions to numerous to count) out there and I respect that. However, I have not had one ask me or the group to "pray" here at the Lodge.
I thnk Linda Stockton's reply said it perfectly, how would you feel about a visiting vendor providing a free dinner, asked you to kneel, face east and praise Alallah for meal?
I would feel the same as I did the other night, it is simply inappropriate at our Arbour Lodge.
Thanks to all for your opinions.
I agree that Religion and Politics should be left out of any meeting at the clubhouse unless it is specified that that is the topic for discussion. It is fine to have an "Old Republicans" or "Old Democrats" or whatever party meeting if that is what you "bill" it as. And if you want to discuss religion and say so in the topic, then fine. I personally like to hear other sides of the "story" so to speak.
But solicitors do not have any right to ask people to pray in a certain way that is not in agreement with their beliefs, no matter what the presenters paid for. Like it was said above, we have residents of many religions and how insulting to those people who may have attended, along with those with no religion or even Christian religion but who believe in private prayer not public prayer.
And for the clubhouse staff to take this so lightly is not right either. They should be saying they will advise all businesses wanting to do a sales event that Religion and Politics are not permitted.
To: Jeanine R
I am at a loss as to what the big deal is about a 6 or 8 year old child saying a prayer. It lasted about 30 seconds and basically was “thank you for my daddy, brother, sister, and the nice weather.” Guess that kid is pretty powerful if she was able to force people to think a certain way about a religion and to pray against their will. I am amazed at the small mindedness, prejudice, and mean spirited letters regarding this child’s short prayer.
No one mentioned it was a kid or how short the prayer was. That would have taken a bit out of your arguments. If I had not been there myself, I would have thought it was a full religious service rather than a child praying for 30 seconds by what has been written.
I must agree with you that it was shocking to hear a young child so poised and gracious. However I did not complain to the parent or think in any way that a parent teaching a child to pray was wrong or out of place. Just nice and refreshing.
To think that you judge a man, his business, the lodge, and the lodge staff so harshly based on a 30 second prayer that you were not forced to participate in, is what is really unbelievable to me. It seems you think of yourself as needing to judge and find fault with others’ beliefs rather than be tolerant. I’ll bet you think you are tolerant, but if a child’s prayer can set you off that badly, I think not.
Now, maybe you have something to be shocked about. As the late night talk show host says sarcastically, “I look forward to you letters.”
To Dana Morrison:
You missed the whole point.
Jay Allen
Dana: Amen
Jeanne: I think Linda is really blowing this out of proportion and like I said before if you were offended you should of left.
Jay: I respect whatever religion or belief you have and will continue to pray for our neighborhood.
WHAT? How do you come to this conclusion?
Yes, my original point was missed - it wasn't the darling little girl, the 30 seconds - it was the audacity of her father to assume the responsiblity of calling us to prayer.
I understand the writers objections and that's ok, I can accept criticism. It is because I am very tolerant and sensitive to others that I started the discussion.
And, although I may not agree with some of the writers, I do not feel anyone has been small minded, prejudiced or mean sprirted - no one who joined the conversation ( that objected to the prayer or not) used any negative adjectives to describe another persons point of view.
We were having a intelligent exchange of thought.
The use of those descriptive adjectives really speaks to the base of my discussion. Religion is a very deep and personal belief system for each person and discussing our differences can make the most reasonable, intelligent people "lose it" and say the strangest, uncivil and harshest things to eachother.
Which brings the point back:
My point was and is - as unbelievable as it may be; unsolitcited prayer (of any type) should not be invoked at public affair at our Arbour Lodge.
I haven't posted on this site for over a year but this topic is so far out there I can't sit back and just read it. People who know me know that I am not outwardly religious, in fact most people would not know what religion if any I believe in. There is so much in the above postings I have decided to take one posting at a time and comment on the subject matter in each one. This may not be the best way to respond but I think it is impossible to make sense if I try to respond to all of the issues that were raised at one time.
Jeannine R: Your posting is unbelievable. How can a prayer before a meal equate to anything other than a devoted family giving blessings for the food they were about to receive. This was not a public event and you and others choose to go there for a free meal and obtain information. The prayer by a child blessing the food which took less the 30 sec can no way be construed as furthering a religion. The participation in the prayer was voluntary. If you chose not to participate still received the free meal and the same price.
Your reference to baby killers, communist and not supporting the Taliban, Al Quida or any other anti American fraction is so over the top it doesn't deserve a response.
Jay: like Jim I did not know who Bonhoeffer was. After reading his bio I sure can't see how a little prayer before a meal by a small child could compare with him. Please enlighten me. Thanks
Norma: Like always you almost always on the right side of the issue-lol. You understand that when you attend a function provided by a vendor you get what you paid for. In this case it as a prayer before a meal and information.
As you mentioned the real issue is the use of the facility by outside vendors or people. The Board needs to address this issue again and at the very least make the rental fee comparable to other facilities.
Linda: What is wrong with the religion that gets on their knees and prays to the East. I do not think they are all terriosts as your posting infers. However, to answer your question what would I do if I had been asked to do the above I would have respectfully declined and had the intestinal fortitude to get up an leave if it bothered me so much. I definitly would not have stayed for the free meal if I had a problem.
Darcie: We are friends but I have to disagree with your first statement. A prayer berfore a meal is not promoting a religion. It is just a family giving thanks for what they are about to eat. In addition, by definition, when you rent the facility it becomes a private affair regardless of who attends. If a renter invites people from Glenbrooke it is still a private function and the renter can do whatever they want as long as it is legal.
I strongly agree with your second point.
Vickie: I agree with what you said.
Jay: I do believe I know what nonreligious christianity is. However, as I understand it nobody was trapped in that room. All the doors were unlocked and people were free to leave whenever they wanted.
Jeannine: If asked to praise alallaha for a meal I personnely would decline. However, I would not have any problem with changing the wording to fit my beliefs. If this was not acceptable then I would just leave.
Kathy: A vendor who rents the facility has the absolute right to say a prayer. You also have the absolute right to leave and not purchase anything from the vendor. I don't know how you can write and justify rules that curtails freedom of speech when renting the facility.
Dana: Right on point
Jay: Based on what is said by everyone so far Dana is right on (note: the original point is clarified by Jeannine later in another posting)
Vickie: I agree
Jeannine:Your point is finally made very clear when you said that unsolicited prayer should not be involked at a public affair at our lodge. Based on what I have written so far it may suprise you that I totally agree with you on this point. It is a valid point that the staff should ensure this does not occur.
However, when the lodge is rented to anyone it is now a private affair. The renter can do or say whatever they want as long as it is legal..Just because Glenbrooke people attend does not change the fact that this is a private function. As such, if the renter wants to say a prayer they can. You can either stay or leave. That is your choice.
I have NO problems with other relegions. NONE I am a christian and proud of it. I only used the "Pray to the East" as an example to show that not all prayers are accepted to everyone.
I find it amazing that some in this forum have been unable to keep the conversation impersonal. Do NOT put words like "baby killers, communist, Taliban, Al Quida or any other anti American fraction" into my responce! I did not say that, I didn't refer to any of these radical groups, I do not or would never support them.
Glen:
You are absolutely correct. They did rent the lodge and they can say whatever they want. I apologize.
I am retired from Civil Service and over the last several years we have been educated in "proper business topics." This was a business meeting, he wanted to sell us something (I did not attend, I am just going by what I read and was told) so in my mind business behavior should apply.
That does NOT mean that a person can say whatever they want but that a person MAYNOT just say whatever they want. No mention of anything religious, political, racial, cultural, sexual, or lifestyle can be discussed. Not even for 30 seconds, not even by somebody cute.
Now I realize private business is not bound by this and they take their chances if they do say something that offends others. And yes, the doors were unlocked but the people who were offended by the request of a prayer in a business meeting may not have wanted to draw attention to themselves or disturb the prayer by getting up and leaving. Much the same way a woman takes sexual abuse from a coworker, but just sitting in silence so as not to cause trouble. Or a person hears a joke about their ethnicity and sort of just laughs along so as not to be singled out. The whole point is not to offend in the first place so the offended person is not put in a position of making a scene.
So, while I do believe in free speech, my comments came from my "training" by the State of California on proper business meetings. And I would be offended that a business person would ask people to pray before the meeting but I would probably not make a scene by getting up and leaving.
If they wanted to bless the food before eating it, they could have blessed it at home beforehand. That way their beliefs could have been satisfied without asking others to do the same.
I think this has been a learning experience by all those who participated in the discussion and those who read it but decided not to share their ideas. I appreciate that Vicki is praying (in private) for our neighborhood and sure hope nobody holds any hard feelings toward anybody else for their comments.
You gave Vickie a "PASS"...that's not fair!
"I am amazed at the small mindedness, prejudice, and mean spirited letters regarding this child’s short prayer. "
I do take offense with this statement because as I read the comments nothing was said about "a child", we were speaking about the principle of prayer, not the actual prayer. (I did not attend this meeting)
The bottom line is, I don't really care what happens at the Lodge, be it a Political Pep Rally, Sex Orgy or Tent Revival. I've got two legs that still work and can stay and join in or leave.....my choice. But on most Glen, I guess I do somewhat agree, could have gone a little easier on this old lady though..............sure did make for some interesting discussions, something we haven't had for some time. I still believe that when a vendor rents the lodge it would be in 'his" best interest to refrain from all three topics and not necessarily because we disagree with them, but because we attended to find out more regarding the product he has. Had it been my business I would be somewhat unhappy that a community was having this discussion about me. So maybe it would have best to have just had a moment of silence.
However, this is a giant step in dividing a community and steps should be taken to prevent this from happening again. JMO
P.S. Finally got an email from them last night at 11 p.m. with the price for the sunscreens....phone call might have made it more personal though. JMO
Kathy:
I also was employed by the State and I do agree with you that when a state agency put on a business meeting I never heard a prayer being said. However, I have attended meetings as part of my position which was put on by a non-state or public agency in which a meal was served as part of the meeting. Many times a prayer was said. You were given a choice to participate. Most did some didn't. It is kind of like the pledge of alliegance. Some people say "under God", some don't and some will not say it at all. Again this is their choice.
I was somewhat shocked the you brought the subject of sexual harrassment into this conversation. This type of behavior is not acceptable and is not protected speech. As a manager in a male orientated agency I would never condon this. Maybe the agency you worked did, but I would doubt it. The same goes to racial jokes. These two topic stand on their own and in no way can be compared to a prayer blessing a meal.
Again I go back to the original point if a private person renting the lodge should be allowed to say a prayer. The answere to this question is yes. You do not have to participate, you were free to leave, and if you felt that you don't have the ability to leave a function that you should probably think twice before going
Glen:
Do you believe that the media should be allowed to print or say anything it wants to?
Jay
Jay:
Yes, however, most of what is reported is slanted towards the writers bias. Very seldom do they provide the whole story. You can go to CNN and listen to a story and then go to FOX news who will have another slant to the same story. The real story is somewhere in between. An informed person would take both version and attempt go get all the facts before forming an opinion. It would be nice to have a reporter tell you the whole story with all the facts and let the people make their own decisions without the reporters personal bias.
If the media chooses to say things that are untrue, which they have the right to do, they would not be in business very long
All I meant by the sexual harassment or the inappropriate jokes is that the receiver is left to be the one who has to leave, putting them on the spot. And a person should not be put in that position. A sensitive business person would not say or do anything that would require a person in attendance to have to get up and leave. Most people are too shy to do so even when offended, they don't want to become the center of attention.
And a prayer over a meal that mentions a specific religious belief can be as offensive to somebody as a racial joke. Just as saying "Under God" in school was offensive to that person who filed suit to have it removed.
This is just my opinion, nothing more.
I have been reading all the comments on this one topic. what a great forum. My Grandfather used to tell me; Never start a discussion or argue about religion, any place, anytime in any occasion. I would like to add mine.
I was there that night. I didn't feel that the intent was to promote religion. He was trying to sell his products as fast he can for the one hour and half that he paid for the hall. All he asked was for the people to join him for the blessings for the food that we are about to partake. He did not even do it himself. He had his 6 year old daughter express the blessings.
He did not do an invocation of his religious beliefs (whatever it was). He did not do a litany of long prayers for us to follow. He did not asked the people to raise our hands to praise someone. All he did was to convince us to buy Sunscreen and Retractable Awnings. Not join him in his religious beliefs. He even gave away raffle prices. Like Dana said. It was 30 second blessings by a 6 year old beautiful little girl.
why don't we just enjoy our "hand and foot" while riding on the "Mexican train".
Had I attended this meeting the prayer would not have personally offended me, but I would have been offended that one of my neighbors in the community felt uncomfortable being put in this situation and ask that it never happen again. We are a community of many different races, beliefs, etc. and should never allow any one in our community to feel uncomfortable at ANY event. I understand that people renting the Lodge and inviting outsiders to attend their event would have different rules than renters who invite only the Glenbrooke Community would have. Why we/some feel that it's ok to insult our Glenbrooke neighbors is beyond me.
I look at it this way......had this been in our home and I had some guests that felt deeply offended by a prayer being offered while a guest, it would break my heart. The Lodge is OUR home as a community.
Do I make any sense in what I'm trying to say?
Seems a lot of you missed the point - If Steve wanted to say a blessing before his meal, he was free to do so. It was not necessary to drag the rest of us into it. I wonder what this "Christian" man would have done if I asked everyone to face Mecca so I could get my two cents worth in?? As it was, when I told him this was not the venue for a prayer meeting, he was apalled that I did not share his beliefs and therein lies the problem - those not sharing his beliefs are just wrong in his eyes - so very typical with such a large percentage of the American population. I really thought this was a FREE dinner and presentation, but like the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free lunch (or dinner!).
I was one who sat at Jeannine's table, and I was shocked, yes shocked, when Steve's cute little daughter was prompted by her father to say a prayer. I too am Christian, and I don't have to have someone else's beliefs shoved down my throat in order to ply me with free food and wine so that I may buy a service. I believe he exploited his family, little children at that, to profit his business. I was in the market for a security screened door. You know what? I'm not going to rant and rave, but I did take my business elsewhere...Iron Elegance!!
Whatever happened to separation of church and state?? Yes, I do say the pledge when I go to my Elks meeting, but I knew that was expected of me, or else I wouldn't have joined. And I am proud to say the pledge and place my hand over my heart during the National Anthem. These things are expected at certain venues, but not at a sales presentation. Get with it. Some of you just don't get it!!
Elaine. You got it. Thank you.
Jay
Yes, my friend, Elaine, got it, that's why I replied. I said to myself I wouldn't share my opinion, but she and Jeannine are right on!!
Darcie: have we set a new record for responses to an article? It is great to know so many people in the neighborhood are using our website. This is great - maybe more neighbors will write articles in the future.
This is my last comment on this issue. As recently stated in the latest comment some of you don't get it. I totally agree with the statement that some people don't get it. Let me try to explain once again.
When someone rents the lodge, the key word is rent, that person can use the facility as outlined in the rental agreement. If the renter wants to invite Glenbrooke residence and say a little prayer if they serve food that is their choice. Would I do what was done had I rented the facility- NO. Janice did the right thing when she took her business to another vender.
If people step back and think about this issue I would hope they would agree that this person had the absolute right to do what he did. Although we may not agree with what he did, he was still within his rights. I spent my whole adult life either in the military or law enforcement ensuring that people's rights are protected. I took this protection rights and freedoms seriously when I was working and I still do now even though I may not agree with what the person is doing or saying.
The bigger issue which was touched upon in some of the earilier postings dealt with renting the facility. It is my opinion the facility should only be used for Glenbrooke residence. We don't need the money bad enough to rent out the facility at a discount. May I suggest that we spend as much energy that has been used on this issue and contact our Board Members to put a stop of renting out our facility or the very least charge the going rate. This rental fee would probably be four times higher that what we receive now.
NormaL: I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I had no intention to do so. My statement of "I am amazed at the small mindedness, prejudice, and mean spirited letters regarding this child’s short prayer.” was made in relation to actual words that were written, not what someone might have intended. I am not a mind reader, but I did clearly read the words “What happened next really through me for a loop, He said "Please let us bow our heads and Pray". WHAT DID HE SAY? PRAY?, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I look around the room and frankly all but myself and two others had heads down in prayer. Really? C'mon people…….Two other residents and myself expressed our shock to Steve, we each in a different way explained that we felt it was totally and completely inappropriate to direct a prayer at OUR Arbor Lodge.”
That is not “speaking about the principle of prayer” but is being very specific.
Those words state that prayer, any prayer any time at the lodge is inappropriate and shocking. It puts down those people who chose to participate with the child in prayer by saying “Are you kidding me……Really? C’mon people.” And it exhibits the belief that they (whoever complained) somehow have ownership and control of what happens at the Arbor Lodge.
I believe the above would fit into the definition of “small mindedness, prejudice, and being mean spirited.”
As for your statement of “However, this is a giant step in dividing a community and steps should be taken to prevent this from happening again.” I could not agree more. When one person or a group of people think they have the right to make edicts regarding others’ lawful, peaceful, and non-offensive behavior, and bully them by trying to make it appear they represent the whole community, it does cause division.
Vickie is correct this is a new record for comments on any article!
There are some excellent points and interesting opinions. I believe a good discussion is healthy and we have the opportunity to learn from one another.
I would like to remind everyone that wants to comment on any article to please remember to to stick to discussing the issues (topic, opinions, etc) and leave personalities out of it. Thanks to all who have responded!
I guess you could call it a good discussion.....beat that horse to death and didn't solve a thing. I don't know about anyone else, but I actually found it very upsetting. Personally I would not have had a problem with a prayer being said, but I would have been hurt that some of my neighbors were offended by it and ask that it never happen again. It seems we never did actually hear what the offended parties were saying because of being more focused on our own beliefs. Hopefully the next vendor doesn't get up and tell us about his political beliefs or maybe that he's glad to see an all caucasian audience, maybe even what a great sex life he has. You pay your rent...it's pretty much do as you please. Don't like it, walk out, you won't get any sympathy from us. Perhaps I'm being too harsh here, but that's what I'm hearing. Maybe a lesson in "tolerance" would be in order.
Perhaps we should let this sleeping dog lie. Have a Good Day!
I agree, either let it just die, or restate the topic. I am not even sure I know what the topic actually was anymore.
I thought it was...Is it correct for a person to ask people to pray in order to hear his sales pitch.
I think we all understood that he was within his legal rights to do so, just that it did not seem appropriate to some of us.
I don't think the fact that food was served, free or not, or the age or cuteness of the person giving the prayer or the length of the prayer had any bering on the subject. Just that a prayer itself was inappropriate.
Now, if this is not the topic, please let me know.
Glen:
Great. Thanks. You got it for me.
Everyone: If we want this to go away we have to stop posting about it.
Jay
Just for information:
Articles that are not "date sensitive" run for one week. They drop -down the page until the 7th day - then they fall off into the archives.
Some people only check the website once a week. This system gives everyone an opportunity to read the stories and comment if they wish.
Why didn't all of you who were offended just walk out and miss your "free" dinner?